Light Weight Off Roaders

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 10/28/2015 at 13:52 • Filed to: Question

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I posited this question to the O&E crowd but I thought It would be fun to get Oppo’s take on it was well. To re-frame it more broadly for the general car loving public, what do you think about manufactures building more off road capable vehicles and its implication on the market and sport?

I should state as a matter of personal opinion that I see off roading (and off road touring in particular) coming back into vogue, in one form or another. Could be low gas prices, could be people getting sick of crossovers, could be that the popularity of camping in general is on the rise...I don’t know but its my perspective that it is happening. So where should SUV/Truck 3.0 be headed? I’m curious to hear your thoughts.

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SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:01

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Off-road capable? Lulz. Bring back the old Suzukis!

HammerheadFistpunch > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 10/28/2015 at 14:04

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yeah, its not the heydays of the SUV, but its a step back in the right direction.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:07

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I haven’t tried any of these off-road, but my dad looked at one (meaning that I needed to vet it) and let’s just say that I left unimpressed. It seemed like a poorly executed version of the Soul for more money. I don’t know why Jalopnik likes it. To me, the interior was ten years old, the cargo space was a joke, and the interior configuration made it even worse. We didn’t even test drive it, and I love test driving cars that I’m going to shit on later.

HammerheadFistpunch > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 10/28/2015 at 14:10

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For the money I would be hard pressed to consider one given that

A. It’s an fca and they aren’t known for well built cars

B. The larger, better, nearly as off roady Forrester isn’t much more money

CalzoneGolem > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:11

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I never realized how similar those wheels were until I saw this picture

HammerheadFistpunch > CalzoneGolem 10/28/2015 at 14:12

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Yup

Berang > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:13

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Off roading can only ever be a niche. And in truth, the more of a niche it is - the better for people who like off roading.

As always with vehicles, it’s the perceived value that sells. People are told the vehicle can do this and that, and although they never plan to use it for “this” it makes them fork over their money.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:13

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I think you got it right in your reply to mkbruin. I think manufacturers do need to bring back some ruggedness to their SUVs/Crossovers. As you say, camping and outdoorsy type activities seem to be growing in popularity and a more aggressive SUV suits this.

We have the capability right now to give a reasonable amount of offroad capability without sacrificing daily usability, and do it in a package that’s going to be reliable and cheap to operate (good gas mileage). I think the Renegade is fantastic and I will probably take a hard look at one when I’m ready for my next car, though I think it might be slightly smaller than I’d want.

If I weren’t house shopping at the moment, and didn’t have access to a crew cab 4x4 to borrow for camping trips and such, I’d be probably looking at a Forester. It has a bit more space than the Renegade, while still being a livable daily. It’s a fuel economy hit over my Cruze, but not as bad as it used to be when comparing a compact sedan to an SUV.

And in an ideal world, they would make a Forester variant similar to the Crosstrek (Forester XV?) that comes from the factory with a lift, more aggressive tires, and a safari rack. Something like this (though maybe not quite as extreme in terms of lift and tire)...

CalzoneGolem > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:17

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I’ve never been big into offroading but these two vehicles seem more of the same. I small not very good or capable Jeep like the Compass or the Patriot and an Outback hatchback.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:19

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Can’t get past the nearly identical wheels. Brain stalled.

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:21

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I think it’s that more people want to get into hiking and rock climbing, but obesity is still pushing historical records. :D

Kidding, of course, but as an outdoorsman, access in most of the Eastern US is a tenuous issue. The more noobs who try to get into a sport or hobby like this, the worse it tends to get. I call out the East because the longer a place has been legally settled, the more serious the private land claims tend to be. Out West, they always had more land than they needed, so setting up National Parks (and State Parks, WMAs, SRAs, etc) was always a part of the modern plan.

Let’s say the local offroad community has a verbal arrangement with a landowner to use an old logging road on his land. This works well for 20 years, but suddenly a bunch of college guys in their Trailhawks start showing up and partying on his land, leaving trash behind, blocking passage, and generally creating a nuisance...often ruining it for everyone in the process.

So IMHO, a quick influx of people (as opposed to a slower, more mentor-based entry into a sport) is more often a bad thing.

HammerheadFistpunch > Berang 10/28/2015 at 14:21

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I’m not sure on the “the more niche the better” policy. Eventually all the good off road vehicles will be used up and worn out if manufactures aren’t building new ones.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:24

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Wasn’t thinking about the Subie, but yep. That pretty much nails it. I actually can’t help but wonder if the Jeeat’s really any more capable than the Forester. It’s just marketed more towards it. Subaru have been focusing on the safety aspects of AWD more than the off-road ability.

HammerheadFistpunch > Ash78, voting early and often 10/28/2015 at 14:26

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good perspective and I generally agree. My main worry as well is that there is an earned ettique for these kinds of back country persuits that can’t be shortcut without consiqunce. Mt. bikers learned this in the big boom of the 90’s and even today the community is just now starting to recover from the black eye that bad apples gave the community as a whole.

HammerheadFistpunch > Snuze: Needs another Swede 10/28/2015 at 14:29

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Man, Subaru is SOOO well positioned right now for this and they don’t even know it. XV’s are flying off the lot because its a cheap, reasonably fuel efficient, reasonably capable machine. All it would take to probe this market would be a Forester Crosstrek (or XV, whatever, it doesn’t matter) with slightly more aggressive tires and some basic skid protection and restyling for better angles. REALLY cheap stuff with a potential huge payoff.

Sweet Trav > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:31

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Dead god subaru, please put the WRX motor and trans into the XV CrossTrek. BRAT 2.0 plx.

HammerheadFistpunch > Sweet Trav 10/28/2015 at 14:33

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SOOOO many people are asking for an XV WRX, seems like easy money for Subaru. Then again, I think the crosstrek is killing it because its cheap as chips in the “adventure” market.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:39

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The Crosstrek is great. I really wanted to get one when I got the Cruze, but they only had the automatic trans available at the time, which was a deal breaker for me, otherwise I would have bought one.

Berang > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 14:43

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More along the lines that if everybody was out there using these vehicles the way they thought they would be - it’d ruin most of the fun of using them.

HammerheadFistpunch > Berang 10/28/2015 at 14:48

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Thats the conundrum. its like racing, its always better without sponsors, but that’s not sustainable.

Spasoje > HammerheadFistpunch 10/28/2015 at 15:08

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Can’t help but notice these two have basically the same wheels...

HammerheadFistpunch > Spasoje 10/28/2015 at 15:09

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you aren’t the only one, its uncanny right?

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Snuze: Needs another Swede 10/28/2015 at 17:00

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Yeah, so I just bought this last week after test driving a Renegade. I really wanted to like the Jeep after following it for some time and reading initial reviews, but the final product just struck me as mediocre, especially for the price. The Subaru is almost as capable and less scary from a reliability point of view. Then I found this CPO 2014 for $16,500 and headed straight to the dealer. It’s a base model 6MT, and it’s my tabula rasa. My plan is new rims, more aggressive tires, a safari rack, and underbody protection to start. Or at least that is my dream. My wife will probably kibosh most of it, but I did get her to OK gold rims.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 10/28/2015 at 17:22

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That’s awesome! Seems hard to find them used, especially CPO for a good price. The ones I see are all either clapped out and dirt cheap, or practically brand new, with an almost brand new asking price.

Keep us up-to-date if you start doing mods. I’d like to see how it goes.

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Snuze: Needs another Swede 10/28/2015 at 17:30

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Thanks will do. I’m planning on starting a journal over on the Forester forum as well. They have a really awesome community around these things. The board has something like 90,000 users.

You’re right they seem to hold their value well for the most part. So when I found a good price on a CPO I basically ran to the dealer. Our 2013 Outback seems to be holding value so well I’m thinking of selling it in a year or two to upgrade to the new Outback even though original plan was to run it until it died.